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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 33
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by four_by_nut View Post
Thought I would post an update on my, seemingly endless, shock tuning experiences.

Finished second in my latest Whiplash race in Snowflake, AZ. The course was mostly wide open throttle desert racing. But this course has some nasty 2 foot tall berms that cut straight across the course in the highest speed sections! And with a rig that likes to buck, and buck bad, you gotta keep you eyes peeled.

My latest settings are (not sure it has changed from my last update):
Front:
Compression: 70
Rebound: 30
Oil Volume: 300 ccs
Nitrogen pressure: 175 psi

Rear:
Compression: 70
Rebound: 85
Oil Volume: 330 ccs
Nitrogen Pressure: 210 psi

The front end is definately where it needs to be. I don't bottom the front end and it dances well over whoops. The rear still bucks, although not as bad. Since I have lightened up the compression (to 70), I notice that the backend wants to bottom easier than before (with higher valving). I smacked the rear, bottom skid several times throughout the race. Didn't hurt the rig, just jarred my kidneys. I find if I put more valving in, then it doesn't react as quickly and the backend feels "slippery" in the whoops and bumps. Too light, and it bottoms out. If I go higher on nitrogen charge pressure, it bucks worse. So..............I think I am about where I am going to be with this rig and Fox airshocks.

One thing to report is that at the end of my last race, I had a front shock blowout on me. As I pulled into the pits (after taking the checkered flag), it basically pissed all over the ground and went flat! The race was REALLY muddy. And out here, the muddy water is really abrassive with granite and such in the mix. So it just tore up my seals. New seal kits on the way.

Other than that, I think I have it about as good as it will get with this setup. Nice and plush riding, handles the whoops REALLY well with good control, and doesn't buck as bad as it did out of the box. But can still get the ass over the front if I'm not careful.
The next time you take your shocks apart and remove the valve stacks look at the valve body you will see bypass holes in the valve body if your valve stacks are not responding (not enough rebound) then your bypassing too much oil around the valve stacks, you also can do trick things with the valve stacks like I added 1 extra 1.400x.010 shim to my rebound stacks if you have played with the valving before I am sure you have plenty of extra shims.

Also while you have the valve body off and in your hands look at where the oil flows and how it works, see all the sharp edges, sharp edges will create unwanted flow characteristics like turbulence time to get out the file and oil stone and radius the edges, dont understand the difference between smooth and sharp edges time to go to your kitchen sink and turn the water on then start holding objects with sharp edges and radius edges under the flow of water and study their effects
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-01-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 75
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

wow guys thanx for the info sounds like your close to the ultimate set up .please keep posting .how bout those florence wheelies
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 10:31 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 16
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

Bump from the dead. I am attempting to improve the setup of the car before I get coilovers. Using info from this thread I have decided on.
90 compression with a flutter in an attempt to remove the greasiness found earlier when four by used a heavy compression stack.
80 rebound
330cc
210 psi.
I haven't gotten around to the front, I will start with four bys setup with a little less oil.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 10:17 PM
 
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Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 16
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

A flutter stack is a configuration were a smaller diameter shim (gap shim) is placed between two larger diameter shims, usually on the compression side and within one or two shims from the piston face.

Inside the shock, a flutter stack increases the distance that the largest shim(s) has to move before it contacts the stiffer shims above it. This gap extends the "soft" zone of the shock and the more thick the gap shim is, the larger that zone becomes.

In a real world application, this would allow your suspension to better soak up high movement, low force terrain like a washboard while still absorbing big hits when they happen. (A secondary bypass shock, however, would normally be better choice for this application though.)
A flutter stack is a configuration were a smaller diameter shim (gap shim) is placed between two larger diameter shims, usually on the compression side and within one or two shims from the piston face.

Inside the shock, a flutter stack increases the distance that the largest shim(s) has to move before it contacts the stiffer shims above it. This gap extends the "soft" zone of the shock and the more thick the gap shim is, the larger that zone becomes.

In a real world application, this would allow your suspension to better soak up high movement, low force terrain like a washboard while still absorbing big hits when they happen. (A secondary bypass shock, however, would normally be better choice for this application though.)
A flutter stack is a configuration were a smaller diameter shim (gap shim) is placed between two larger diameter shims, usually on the compression side and within one or two shims from the piston face.

Inside the shock, a flutter stack increases the distance that the largest shim(s) has to move before it contacts the stiffer shims above it. This gap extends the "soft" zone of the shock and the more thick the gap shim is, the larger that zone becomes.

In a real world application, this would allow your suspension to better soak up high movement, low force terrain like a washboard while still absorbing big hits when they happen. (A secondary bypass shock, however, would normally be better choice for this application though.)
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-24-2013, 04:54 AM
 
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Re: Fox Shock Tuning

So opinions wanted. I can run about 35-40 through a section of woops at l/s and shocks work well. If I get up to 45-50 the bucking begins. A flutter stack will improve this affect at speed? If I get up to 60 or better then I am just skipping across the top of the woops. Still pretty violant feel but handles good. King coilovers are some time away and clutch tuning is perfect. I guess I need a new pain in the ass, chase my tail project.
I have been all over with oil volume and pressure sl need to try something different.
Current oil volumes are 15cc over stock pressures are 185 front 270 rear. Not good for jumping but all around pretty decent. I just never satisfied it seems.



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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-24-2013, 07:49 AM
 
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Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 16
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandracer1 View Post
So opinions wanted. I can run about 35-40 through a section of woops at l/s and shocks work well. If I get up to 45-50 the bucking begins. A flutter stack will improve this affect at speed? If I get up to 60 or better then I am just skipping across the top of the woops. Still pretty violant feel but handles good. King coilovers are some time away and clutch tuning is perfect. I guess I need a new pain in the ass, chase my tail project.
I have been all over with oil volume and pressure sl need to try something different.
Current oil volumes are 15cc over stock pressures are 185 front 270 rear. Not good for jumping but all around pretty decent. I just never satisfied it seems.
Being never satisfied with shocks and being your own tuner is the norm, especially with these pos air shocks. Do you have the stock valving currently?
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-24-2013, 09:00 AM
 
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Location: Oregon City OR
Posts: 378
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandracer1 View Post
So opinions wanted. I can run about 35-40 through a section of woops at l/s and shocks work well. If I get up to 45-50 the bucking begins. A flutter stack will improve this affect at speed? If I get up to 60 or better then I am just skipping across the top of the woops. Still pretty violant feel but handles good. King coilovers are some time away and clutch tuning is perfect. I guess I need a new pain in the ass, chase my tail project.
I have been all over with oil volume and pressure sl need to try something different.
Current oil volumes are 15cc over stock pressures are 185 front 270 rear. Not good for jumping but all around pretty decent. I just never satisfied it seems.
Go to Pirate4x4.com click on the tech garage and scroll down to the Fox air Shock 2.0 article. Here is some of the best info on the Fox shox you will ever find.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-29-2013, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Posts: 529
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

Although I don't have a Redline anymore, I still like to stalk this site. I still dream of getting a Revolt in the future....mostly so I can slap a set of Elka's on it and kick my neighbor' sass in his $22,000 Polaris XP 1000!

But anyway......

I never did get a good all around setup with the Fox's. The best setup I ever had was driving Redline's demo XL with Elka's and then Damon's race Revolt with Elka's. Those two rigs absolutely kicked ass!!

The only thing I could figure that made them all around better was two things:

1) they were running dual rate springs and remote reservoirs. So they handles little stuff really we'll on the soft spring and the big stuff due to remote res and big valuing.
2) they were tuned by the Elka's factory guys for the rig!

If I had to stick with the Fox's, I think I would try to find someway to get them to tune them for you! Drag your rig to a race...dunes....wherever they are at. And try to strike a deal (pay them) to set them up right. It's a pain....but it is the only way I could figure to get it as best it could be.

Keep at it guys! I'm jealous!!

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 05:23 PM
 
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Posts: 382
Re: Fox Shock Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandracer1 View Post
So opinions wanted. I can run about 35-40 through a section of woops at l/s and shocks work well. If I get up to 45-50 the bucking begins. A flutter stack will improve this affect at speed? If I get up to 60 or better then I am just skipping across the top of the woops. Still pretty violant feel but handles good. King coilovers are some time away and clutch tuning is perfect. I guess I need a new pain in the ass, chase my tail project.
I have been all over with oil volume and pressure sl need to try something different.
Current oil volumes are 15cc over stock pressures are 185 front 270 rear. Not good for jumping but all around pretty decent. I just never satisfied it seems.
A cross over shim or "flutter" shim will help with initial high shaft speed movement.
Also moving the stack further away from the rat plate will help with the comp curve & not shutting down the flow too early, unless you are already at the max flow of the piston.
Then you need a higher flow piston.
Reducing Rebound is a more common solution to harshness. your tires need to be able to drop into the whoop in order to use the compression stroke available.
Being that air shocks are designed for slow shaft speeds due to a real flat air spring rate its hard to get them to move at higher rates.
The last 4 " or so of travel equates into a super high air pressure increase. That in turn causes a fast rebound movement if using a lighter valving stack.
My suggestion to combat this is to use a crossover shim on the rebound to lighten (speed up) the shock closer to ride height & use a heaver high speed shim set on top to counter the rate increase closer to bottoming.
If your using an # 85 stack try putting the crossover shim(.950 x .010 or .950 x .012) on top of the first largest shim. If it's too light put it on top of the second one.
You can also add more bleed as well, but drilling the piston is a no return option.
Fine tuning is trial & error of varying kinds once you get close with the basic stacks.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 04:49 AM
 
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