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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cold Start Issue with Riot

I am having cold start issues with my Riot. I have already (about 6 months ago) sent my ECM back to Redline (when they were still open) to have it "reflashed" for cold start updates. But now that it is getting colder, it is obvious it either didn't work, or they didn't change anything. When cold, it has to turn over and over and will barely catch. Or when it catches, it won't want to continue to idle. I have to give it some throttle pedal. But it can only be a tiny bit because if I give it too much, it will kill it.

Thoughts? With the proper cold start update, does the RPM run higher than once it is warmed? Or what? I"m not sure how it should act with the cold start updates.

Any suggestions?

I just picked up a Big Gun fuel programmer. Will that help with cold start? I don't think so, but just checking.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2010, 05:23 PM
 
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

Richening it up could help, but it sounds like a possible Air temp sensor issue.
Maybe a Map sensor, Iac, tps, ect.
Not sure, I don't know what these engines have on them.

My guess when cold, it should be given a longer injector timing pulse & idle a bit higher.
Once warmed a bit, it should come down to normal operation.

Is the check engine light on, or does it flash at all? codes?

Last edited by XRMikey; 11-30-2010 at 05:40 PM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2010, 08:51 PM
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

i talked to mike at redrock about flashing and he said that sometimes after flashing it can loose its tps setting and needs to be recalibrated with
software and a laptop....call him
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2010, 09:11 PM
 
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

Really? You'd think the TPS setting would be part of the reboot after the update.

Good to know.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2010, 10:25 PM
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

The ECM needs to know the bit map info that the TPS signal sends out. It needs to know where idle and full throttle are. The ECM has to be set with the info using a laptop. I was told by the factory that it is possible for the TPS setting that was set when the car was built has the possibility of being lost during a update flash but it is very rare. The bit map info can be different from car to car too so I will always check to see that TPS settings right especially if I am installing another ECM for testing purposes. I have put my laptop on several machines and have found a couple that the cable was adjusted right and at full throttle the ECM only saw from the TPS a throttle position of 80 maybe 90%. I have also seen the opposite where the throttle is not open all the way but the ECU thinks it is at 100%. There has also been a time where I found the bit map info correct when it was set up but was reading low and I found the t-cable out of adjustment (maybe stretched a little).

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Last edited by Red Rock Powersports; 11-30-2010 at 10:29 PM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-30-2010, 10:49 PM
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

The Cold start update that came out was not necessarily to correct a "Cold start problem" in the sense of the terminology as I have been told. These engines are cold blooded it seems, but the real issue that was being solved was the destruction of the intermediate starter gear in the engine according to Redline. The gear has fine teeth on it and a lot of force was being apply to the teeth as a cold engine was being started and eventually the teeth would brake off and end up in the engine and the starter would just spin. I believe they did a few things with the program that helped relieve the pressure off the teeth such as timing during start up (retarded ATDC) then BTDC after the the engine starts. I never received a written memo as to the exact changes in the programing for the Redlines, this is just based on observation while working on them.

Installing the fuel programmer seems to help with the fire up of the engine though.

Problems? Questions? Need parts or Repairs? Send us an e-mail, PM, or Call (435) 705-9846

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2010, 06:27 AM
 
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

I can say that after installing the Big Gun exhaust, opening up my intake and installation of the Big Gun fuel controller, my Riot starts up much better than before. The temps were down into the 20's last week and the motor would start up after just a couple seconds of cranking. The motor also settles into a nice idle without dieing, where before it would die several times before holding an idle....

Since you can adjust idle fuel mixture with the Big Gun controller, I'm sure that has some bearing on the cold start/idling.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2010, 08:53 AM
 
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

Mine has always been that way. Even after the turbo upgrade it wants to warm slowly and a little tricky to start. Reminds me of my old carberated hot rods in winter from days gone by. I have just learned to deal with it. After about 1-2 mins of rpms at 2000 it is fine. Just had to figure out the best starting procedure for me. One thing for sure no one can steal it if it is cold!!!!



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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-05-2010, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

Thanks for the replies. I'm starting to think the TPS might be my issue. I was recalling that after it warms to operating temp, the idle is around 3400. So..........cold it's like 1600 (once I get it going) and warm it's around 3400. So...........sure seems like TPS is confused. And I had to adjust the throttle rod setup to get the full pull on the throttle linkage. In addition, it's been doing real weird power serging issue when I am part throttle. It's like the motor is losing/gaining throttle sensing or something. Full or heavey throttle it's fine. It's part throttle or just off throttle it does a weird surge/drop of power. All sure sounds like either TPS calibration or a sensor acting up. I do, now, have a fuel programmer but haven't had a chance to put it on yet. I'm debating an exhaust change and haven't put it on yet so I don't have to calibrate it twice (I'm lazy).

Mike: I'll probably give you a call to see what we can do to get a laptop hooked to mine to verify the TPS is set right. I can wait a while so maybe we can hook up at a race or something.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 02:49 PM
 
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Thumbs down Re: Cold Start Issue with Riot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rock Powersports View Post
The Cold start update that came out was not necessarily to correct a "Cold start problem" in the sense of the terminology as I have been told. These engines are cold blooded it seems, but the real issue that was being solved was the destruction of the intermediate starter gear in the engine according to Redline. The gear has fine teeth on it and a lot of force was being apply to the teeth as a cold engine was being started and eventually the teeth would brake off and end up in the engine and the starter would just spin. I believe they did a few things with the program that helped relieve the pressure off the teeth such as timing during start up (retarded ATDC) then BTDC after the the engine starts. I never received a written memo as to the exact changes in the programing for the Redlines, this is just based on observation while working on them.

Installing the fuel programmer seems to help with the fire up of the engine though.
So, would a ecu from a 08 or 09 revolt solve the broken teeth issue?
I have the big gun programmer set on the base settings and it didnt help with my cold start LOL!
How do I verify my ecu has been updated? Whatever redline did to my ecu definately did not work.
Let me guess the tps cannot be adjusted with just the ecu detached from the car?
What a nightmare.

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