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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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clutches running hot

O.K. guys. I have been blowing belts and have the weights set up now so I never see over 8000 rpms. My clutches are still running hot. I see 165 on the primary at the outer edges and about 135 towards the middle of the shieve. The secondary runs about 10* cooler. Is it normal for temps of the shieves to be that high at the edges. I cannot get the temps down any lower. I just put this belt on and will see what kind of life I get out of it. Most of the time revs are at about 7000 7500 unless I really get rolling and the boost kicks in on top end. Any ideas?



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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 09:22 AM
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Re: clutches running hot

Can you briefly tell me what you have changed on the car. I know you put on a turbo. Did the turbo bolt on your motor or is it a whole new motor. Did you change anything in the clutches from stock. More or less rpm is not going to make a belt fail. I have a car with 230hp I have run it at 9000rpm. Belt holds up. Also what kind of belt are you using?
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 10:05 AM
 
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Re: clutches running hot

Mike at Red Rock has set me up with a clutch and he told me max temp for the secondary clutch should not exceed 120 degrees. When I totally screwed up with weight placement I hit 126 degrees on the secondary clutch. (Temps were taken on the outside of the secondary clutch, roughly in the middle). My normal primary clutch temps were ranging from 135 to 152 degrees. (Temps were taken on the primary clutch roughly in the middle of the inside clutch pully). On the total screw up setting my primary temps went up to 175 degrees. Mike told me as a baseline to gradually add weight until the rpm's started to drop. I have found through trail and error ( and a "hole" lot of time ) that many factors can change your outcome. If you send me your email adress in a "pm" I will send you my results so far with my "Desert Race set up" Riot. I just completed a 140 mile race holding the throttle to the floor for a great portion of the time this past weekend with no problems.



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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 10:10 AM
 
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Re: clutches running hot

If you have changed clutches or moved around shims on the secondary its Critical that you have the clutch alighnment tool ( Mike at Red Rock sent me mine ) you measure from the inside and the outside of the secondary clutch down into the center of the primary to center the belt in the pulleys. I spent at least an hour getting this right

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: clutches running hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy2424 View Post
Can you briefly tell me what you have changed on the car. I know you put on a turbo. Did the turbo bolt on your motor or is it a whole new motor. Did you change anything in the clutches from stock. More or less rpm is not going to make a belt fail. I have a car with 230hp I have run it at 9000rpm. Belt holds up. Also what kind of belt are you using?
I went from stock 72 hp to a Weber turbo kit put on the Weber motor. So that combo should be a perfect match. It took my hp to 130 at 15 boost. I am putting out 13lbs of boost now. Stock spring is silver and 37grams on each of 4 arms. I am at 59.1 grams per arm for a total of 236.4 grams. and a red primary spring. This was done to pull my rpms down off of the rev limiter on top end. My rpms are only running about 7000 low end and 7800 top end. I need to be at 8100-8200. I am using the stock Kevlar reinforced Carlisle belt. What king of belt life do you get (hours)?



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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 11:36 AM
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Re: clutches running hot

what did the red spring do to the engagement rpm versus the silver. Did you ever run the turbo with the stock clutch settings?
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: clutches running hot

The red spring took engagement to 4100 from about 2600 or so. I started with the stock set-up, 37grams on each of 4 arms and the stock spring and was ALL OVER the limiter from the drop of the throttle. I started working up from there. I was pretty close I thought and found another 5 lbs of boost and started over. I put the stock spring back in yesterday and a bunch of weight and was on the limiter. So I put the heavy spring back in and loaded the weight up. So I am at 7800 max revs now. Hole shot it jumps to about 7400 and pulls down immediately to about 7000 and will climb to 7800 way,way on the top end when the boost comes on hard. I am close but not close enough. My next trip will tell me I guess.



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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 12:55 PM
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Re: clutches running hot

ok if it hole shot at 7400 and then pulls down you can fix that two different ways. Either the curve of your cam arms are to aggressive or the helix in the rear clutch is to steep. You changed your cam arms from stock they may not have the same profile as your stock which can mess things up. You holeshot at 7400 because the tires are spinning as soon as they hook up you the carm arms are to steep to climb or the helix is to steep to climb and it bogs you down to 7000 until the motor make enough power to pull it up. While it is bogging down at 7000 your belt is slipping that is why your building heat and killing the belt. I would put the engagement spring in that engages at 4200. Your motor makes more power there. If the rpm is to high on the top end keep adding weight to the cam arms until you get the right rpm. If it still holeshots and then boggs down the rpm you need a different carm arm profile or different helix one that is not as steep of an angle so the motor can pull it up the angle with out bogging it down. Also I dont know much about the belt but it needs to be as strong as a ultimax 3 to run that kind of hp. I would fix the clutches first then get into the belt. You should be able to holeshot and go straight to the rpm that you want to run. Say its 8000rpm. Then when the clutches are all the shifted out ( You should be somewhere around 75 mph) Your motor rpm will take over and you should feel a little surge probly get 3 or 4 miles mph more and 300-500 more rpm and then you will be topped out.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: clutches running hot

Well Tim,
That is pretty good. I had it tuned out so it would jump to 8000 from the drop of the throttle and stay there, BUT, at top end I was always on the chip when the boost came on hard. I had my 40 gram arms on and they were packed full of weight. I think I was shredding the belt because of the over rev causing the heat with the 40 gram arms. So I have had to go to the 50 gram arms now. I know I am too heavy now but am going heavy to light instead of light to heavy. Hoping this will save me some belts. The mph guess is pretty close. I was at 73.4 in 500 feet when I had it the closest and shredded my last belt after about 6 consecutive hard runs. That is part of my problem to, I just cannot control myself when I start beating the built quads and see their frustration. The factory belt is the Ultimax3 they just put the Redline silkscreen over it. The belt should hold the power. I am looking into carbonfiber instead of Kevlar now. I will see if they are any better. Have you ever used the carbon fiber? The helix in the secondary is a 50-40 F Team secondary.



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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: clutches running hot

Tim,
I will check the profile difference on the arms when I pull them out to adjust weights. Do you have any idea how hot your shieves run? And where do you pull the temps from, middle of the shieve, inside or outside?



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