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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-23-2014, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Driven Clutch

I have the clutch tuners handbook & I have been reading through it & it occurred to me that it doesn't refer to driven clutch "float" anywhere.
I have been looking around & it seems that some manufactures have it & some don't.
Who decides on whether or not it should have it or not & for the ones that do is it enough or too much.
I came across a web page at totallyamaha.com/snowmobiles about the Yamaha RX-1 & it seems to make sense.
What do you guys think?

Copy Past :

"
Think about your secondary clutch and how it aligns with your primary. Traditionally, Yamaha has installed there secondary to be "self aligning". While it makes sense, does it actually work? hmmmm.

The engine in the RX-1 is a solid mounted engine, meaning it cant move laterally towards the secondary drive shaft under acceleration loads. The idea of a "floating secondary" is that the driven clutch will move inwards or outwards on the drive shaft to compensate when the PTO side of the engine moves rearward under acceleration loads. Thatís a mouthful. However, think about that a minute. If your engine doesnít move, why on godís earth do you need slop in your secondary? To allow for larger tolerances at assembly time? To make it less labor intensive for the dealer? My guess is both. Ski-Doo, Cat, and now Polaris all use "Locked" secondary and they have engines that do move because of the rubber in the motor mounts. With the installation of a good engine tensioner, you can run a locked secondary on any sled. Racers have been doing if for years, and now itís trickling into the manufacturers. The Key is to make sure your alignment is absolutely perfect. Ill cover that in a bit. This has been bugging me for sometime, so I researched it further. I talked to many racers, dealers, and manufacturers and wrote a letter to Snow Tech and got a response from "Dear Ralph" in their first issue of 03/04. He agreed with this theory and mentioned thereís a reason certain manufacturers and now running "Locked Secondary".

For those of you completely lost, go lift the hood of your sled, put both hands on the secondary clutch and push in, now pull out. Notice it Moves? Thatís "Float".

Yamaha uses a splined jackshaft and the inside of the secondary is also a splined. The fit is excellent, however in theory, it would be impossible for a clutch to "self align" under hard acceleration and hard brake loads. There is too much side pressure on the jackshaft to allow the secondary to move. So why do you need it? And why is Yamaha the only company to still "float" there secondary? hmmmmmm, Now on to the steps to properly align your clutches and to insure better belt life and better performance.

The Correct way:
1. Remove the Drive belt and Secondary
2. Add appx 2-40 thous thick shims to the Jackshaft. Reinstall Secondary making sure youve tightened the 14 MM bolt.
3. Using an offset tool check to make sure the offset is 15MM from the back of the secondary to the back of the primary. If not, remove secondary and add or subtract shims until the offset is perfect.
4. Reinstall secondary and belt and your done. This will lock your secondary into place and will not allow it to move on the shaft.

Alternate way:
1. Remove the Drive belt
2. Get a 18" piece of steel straight edge (or mechanics ruler), make sure its straight.
3. Open up the sheaves on the secondary and slide the straight edge all the way down to the bottom of the sheaves.
4. Let the secondary close so it pinches the straight edge making sure the other end is resting on the center primary bushing.
5. Take a look at where the straight edge comes to rest in the primary.
6. You want it perfectly centered on the shiny part (where the belt rubs)
7. To move the straight edge outwards, Take the secondary off and add shims until you get the straight edge to come to rest perfectly centered in the primary. Usually about .040 to .080 are how far they are off.

In conclusion, you can do whatever you wish with your clutches. But if you want longer lasting belts, cooler running clutches, and better performing sleds, you may want to try this.
"
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-23-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

You are forgetting some very important check points in both of your methods on the Redline. You need to ensure both inside sheave backs are square to each other. And check for squareness on the top of the back sheave plates AND the bottom so as to ensure the trans is not "tipped over" to one side. And square front to back. Clutch alignment on Redlines is not an easy task. elongating holes and shimming trans mounts with washers. at least for me. Different on all 3 machines I deal with.
It is important to remember that most sleds and Polaris vehicles the engine and trans are mounted to one cradle assembly. We are not. If you can find 2 redlines with the back trans mount plate welded exactly the same hell has frozen over. If by chance you could then the 4 engine mounts have to be the same as the next car.


IMO the only reliable way is use the alignment tool with the offset cut into it and get them eyeballs focused.



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Last edited by sandracer1; 08-23-2014 at 07:33 PM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-24-2014, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

Oh, I agree with you on the alignment. I have spent a few hours getting mine dead straight (parallel) as well as the offset and at the same time trying to establish the center to center measurement. But all that being correct. Do you think the revolts have enough float? I did some more searching around & there are sled racers that don't even run shims. But that's also racing. I'm thinking if our set up is only about .040 float would it be wise to get the alignment perfect & remove the float or.... if our engines move to much and also twist a bit, maybe we should set up the float to around .080-.090,
The center to center shift is also a concern. If the motor rotates back we loose that. I really hate going through belts so I'm trying to figure out a way to get any possible damaging misalignment out of the system.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-25-2014, 03:53 AM
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

I have been getting about 1 full season out of my belts. Like you said there are so many variable. Motor shift and belt tension and alignment being to true issue I think. I watch my sheave temps close. When my belts start stretching my clutches run hot. Then adjust tension. I run about 1 shim worth of float. 2 might be ok or better. Some have added a support from the frame to the engine cradle. I think this is a good idea. It is on my list. If you are blowing belts on stock hp alot it may be you are having shift out or down shift issues. Does it look like your belts are just "snapping" in half or are they all shredded?



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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-25-2014, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

They shred. It seems to happen only at extended full throttle runs.
If I'm pinned I get less than 1/4 mile of life.
If I run it auround 45-50 mph. no more, it will go about 50-100 miles. Maybe more.
I have then seen the outer part of the belt chunk off. Around 2" down to the chords. I'm contributing that to possibly a rock or some other sort of aggressive contact.
If I run it mellow it seems to be fine. Clutch is cool to the touch even after running 45+ miles. I just can't run it wide open. It actually feels like it's possibly slipping. Similar to tires getting & losing hookup.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-25-2014, 08:05 PM
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Re: Driven Clutch

Just alighn it the best you can set the snubber tight up against engine and carry a sparrrre belt
just my 2 cents
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-25-2014, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

That's where I'm at now. But I carry two belts. I'm directing my attention to the motor. Gonna try to stabilize the center to center a bit more if I can.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-25-2014, 10:06 PM
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

Don't always blame belt failure on alignment. Your primary and possibly secondary clutch could need maintenance. A shredded belt can leave strands imbedded in the primary or secondary and hinder movement. At the minimum, disassemble the primary/secondary clutches and insure all parts are in spec and move freely. If you're unfamiliar, take the primary off and take it to a reputable clutch builder and have it gone through (SLP in Idaho). They all need rebuilding sooner or later...

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-26-2014, 04:04 PM
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

I have had my revolt for two years now and I'm running the same belt when I bought it. I sand drag it at my clubs track for two years and ride up to Silver Lake dunes in Michigan. I think that my alignment is pretty good.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-26-2014, 06:20 PM
 
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Re: Driven Clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyroniebalony View Post
I have had my revolt for two years now and I'm running the same belt when I bought it. I sand drag it at my clubs track for two years and ride up to Silver Lake dunes in Michigan. I think that my alignment is pretty good.



oooohhhhhhh, you better put another belt in the car now. Comment like that it will let go the next time you go out.



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